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Should councillors be better paid, and why? (Read only)

Last post 30/10/2007, 8:44 AM by Emma Hagan. 8 replies.

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  • Should councillors be better paid, and why? (Read only)

    Welcome to our forum. We’re still getting a terrific response and the comments we have received are being fed into discussions at meetings of the Commission. Please keep them coming.

    Our question this month is: “Should councillors be better paid, and why?”

    All principal local authorities (Counties, districts, boroughs) must pay their members a basic allowance. Councils may, if they choose, pay allowances for special responsibilities, travel and subsistence, care for dependents, and co-optees. It is for local authorities to decide the levels of all the categories of allowance they pay. The Government publishes no guidance on this.

    Basic allowance is paid at the same level for all members, which is intended to cover the time commitment of councillors and incidental costs such as the use of their homes. It is not related to the actual level of commitment by the councillor, other than that a member need only attend a meeting once every six months to remain qualified and thus eligible for basic allowance.

    From your posts so far it is clear that the issue of money is an important one. Are you in full-time employment and would like to become a councillor, but can’t afford to give your time? As a full-time councillor, are you rewarded appropriately for the hours you put in? On the other hand, do you believe that ‘professionalising’ the role of councillor would demean the value of public service? Would it encourage people with the ‘wrong’ motivations to stand for election?

    These are big questions, which the commission is looking at and we would be very interested to hear your views.
    We’d like to hear too from people who have been councillors in the past: was money an issue? Would a different system of remuneration tempt you to throw your hat back in the ring?

    It’s a fascinating area and I’m sure you’ll have lots to say, so please sign up to the forum and let us have your views.

    Thank you for taking part.

    Dr Jane Roberts DBE
    Chair

  • 139 in reply to 138
    23/08/2007, 5:43 PM :: Posted by Emma Hagan (Posts 17)

    Re: Welcome to the new look Councillors Commission forum

    Welcome to our new look forum. We are still asking the question, “Should councillors be better paid, and why?”  You can see the responses we’ve had so far in the attached PDF file of the discussion to date (PDF 24 Kb) or link to our original site at http://forum.communities.gov.uk/councillorscommission, but please note you won't be able to post a comment here.

    You can find assistance with the new forum format under ‘Help’ on the menu at the top of the screen. If you are in doubt about what you can and can’t say in your post please take a look at the forum rules which can be found under the Terms and Conditions of the site, just click on the link at the bottom of the screen.

    Over to you.

    Emma

    (Moderator)

  • 169 in reply to 138
    30/08/2007, 12:37 PM :: Posted by misunderstood (Posts 3)

    Re: Should councillors be better paid, and why?

    As you say, this is a very sensitive area and there appears to be two very clear opinions on the subject.  These are mainly based around the length of time a councillor has served.  The old timers are almost without exception against the level of payments now in place and will always seek (when in opposition) to use the findings of the annual independent review as a stick to beat the ruling group with.

    I am, in principle, a supporter of setting a level that would allow somebody who wants to serve as a councillor the financial flexibility to do so.  However, those people who might fit this category are limited in numbers. Young people will be seeking to further their careers and taking a significant period of time out of their career would be bound to disadvantage them in the long term. 

    The group best served by this arrangement are young mums who need part time work in order to help the household budget and often seek part time flexible working in order to do this.  On the face of it this is the ideal solution, because what is missing from the vast majority of elected member groups in local government is young people and women.  If we can set a figure that equates to that offered by part time work, then we might just redress the balance.

    However, in using this approach do we then end up with a group of people more interested in the money than the job?  If this is a genuine possiblity, then we need to seriously think about setting minimum performance standards for these members and some way of measuring that performance during their period of office.  This performance information would then be made available to the public and based on this, the public would determine the suitablity of that individual to hold further office come election time.  Such a suggestion is of course highly controversial and would inevitably change the whole approach and attitudes to elected members.

    As it stands, the cabinet system is already begining to reflect what has happend at the higher levels of the organisations that supposedly represent elected members.  There exists an elite group of elected members who have a full time job doing whatever it is they do and started out like the rest of us elected members; didn't they?  How did this elite group of supposedly ordinary elected members become the chosen few?  No doubt at some point they made themselves continuously available, by either having enough money not to need to work or owning the business (an elite indeed). 

    On the front line Cabinet members now carry more and more 'responsiblity' (can it really be responsiblity if you are not in danger of loosing your job for making a wrong decision?).  With this responsiblity comes a requirement to attend more meeting, represent your authority at more and more seminars and presentations and generally be in the right place at the right time. 

    My particular leader has seen fit to appoint himself two deputies, so that he can go to the meetings (invariably in London) he considers important to ??  As a cabinet member myself, I only work part time, 3 days a week, since leaving the RAF, in order to give myself enough time to do the job.  I could only make the decision to do this because the allowances were nearly sufficent to cover the pay I would normally have gained from working 5 days a week.  Unfortunately, I now realise that nearly sufficent is not enough and that this was probably an expensive mistake.  It is possible that I will not be able to sustain this position for another 3 years and will soon have to seriously consider resigning from the cabinet and taking up full time working.

    As such I will be moving further away from the power base and will have to content myself with being an ordinary member with limited or little influence.  If you're not in you must be out and if you're out, you stand no chance of becoming anything more than an ordinary member, however ambitious or dedicated you might be. 

    In short, unless somebody can afford to be a councillor, either because of personal circumstances or because the allowances enable it to be a viable form of employment, the elite will continue to be that and the power base will always be white, male, over 50, retired or rich. However, with pay comes responsiblity and with responsiblity comes performance monitoring and accountability, beyond the once every 4 years thorough the ballot box that some of my colleagues claim is enough.       

  • 171 in reply to 169
    30/08/2007, 8:51 PM :: Posted by Andy Waters (Posts 1)

    Re: Should councillors be better paid, and why?

    There is no doubt that this is a difficult one, and valid opinions have been expressed on either side. My own view, as a former councillor (albeit only on a lowly parish council) is that generally councillors should not be salaried.  However, as with things like jury service, I think it appropriate that councillors be reimbursed for any demonstrable loss of earnings.  This could be extended to people who, for example, forego a job in order to be a councillor.

    I think the idea of a responsibility allowance for executive councillors, and other councillors with special responsibilities, is probably appropriate but this should be at a modest level and not so high as to be an attractive salary in itself.   I would also support a proper salary for an Elected Mayor in those areas that have them, particularly in the "core cities" such as here in Newcastle if we ever get one!  But whlist I appreciate that most of the current council Leaders do their best, many of them seem reluctant to vacate their indirectly-elected positions and submit to direct election as a mayor.   They cannot expect to be remunerated at the same level as a powerful executive mayor.

  • 177 in reply to 138
    06/09/2007, 11:14 AM :: Posted by James Humphreys (Posts 1)

    Re: Should councillors be better paid, and why?

    In some authorities, Councillors are expected to 'donate' a proportion of their expenses to their local party, while cabinet members are able to use their full-time status to devote much more time to political campaigning. In effect, the state  provides financial support to political parties, but on a basis that favours the incumbents. Paying councillors more is likely to worsen this effect. Given this, there would need to be clear evidence that higher allowances or a full-time salary would encourage a genuinely diverse range of candidates. But the academic literature points to other factors - the image of politicians and political parties, the lack of role models, the confrontational nature of UK-style politics - as playing a greater role in discouraging potential candidates. So it should not be assumed that higher allowances would ensure a diverse and representative pool of candidates, any more than paying MPs ensures diversity in Westminster in terms of ethnicity, sex or educational or class background.
  • 198 in reply to 138
    14/09/2007, 4:01 PM :: Posted by Hamid Kennedy (Posts 1)

    Re: Should councillors be better paid, and why?

    I agree with other respondents that it is a difficult area to come to agreement on.  I do believe however that should Councillors be paid -whether full time or part time you'd see an increase in representation from different social classes and age ranges.  I don't think its necessarily wrong for people to become councillors 'for the money' - as long as appropriate performance management procedures are in place I'd imagine the community will probably benefit from having them utilise their skills in public service as opposed to the private sector.

    For me payment is undoubtedly important - I have a young family to feed and it would be virtually impossible for me to do a full time job and be an active councillor at the same time.  However I note that the other factor preventing me from becoming a councillor is the need to be aligned to one particular political party.  I guess I'm more interested in serving the community as opposed to pushing one particular policy viewpoint or another.  I know one can always stand as an independant but I always get the impression that these 'independant' guys were at one stage or another a member of one of the main political parties and already have the contacts/face recognition this brings.

    Regards,

    Hamid Kennedy

     

  • 203 in reply to 138
    23/09/2007, 5:02 PM :: Posted by Graham Russell (Posts 1)

    Re: Should councillors be better paid, and why?

    As chair of an independent panel, I have received much comment from councillors about this. There is little doubt that the demands and expectations on a modern councillor are significant in today's complex local government structure. Planned legislation will place potentially significant new burdens on local representatives to an extent that front line councillors will require a robust support framework and this includes financial considerations.  No two councils are the same and regard must be given to the non-allowance support that is available to members.  For example IT provision where some councils fund this entirlely outside the allowance structure and others make some account within the calculation of basic allowance.

    There is an argument that the front line councillor role demands a significantly higher financial support than at present with prioportionally less of the total pot going to so called "special responsibilities".  I believe that in some councils there has been a somewhat fanciful use of the special responsibility provisions with functions that are rightly expected of all councillors being picked out for special funding for individuals e.g. chairing meetings. I believe there should be a much clearer and narrower definition of those roles (reflective of modern partnership local government) that attract special responsibility with a clearer account of the expectations of front line councillors in terms of both local work and full-Council involvement. Basic allowance should recognise aspects of full council responsibility of all members.

    There is a strong argument that the performance of councillors in post is measured solely at the ballot box. I believe there is scope for a performance measurement scheme relevant to special responsibility holders within the allowances structure and independent panels should have the right to challenge where under performance is identified.

     

    Graham Russell

     

  • 209 in reply to 138
    27/09/2007, 7:24 PM :: Posted by jeffhall (Posts 1)

    Re: Should councillors be better paid, and why?

    No.

    Councillors already earn enough basic allowance and/or expenses. To pay them more means diverting funds away from areas which are in far greater need than the comfort of a few councillors. That extra money could avoid the closure of a nursing home or an extra social worker.

    You first examine supply and demand. If the supply is strong but the demand weak then prices are low. Currently there are thousands of capable citizens who would love the oppurtunity to become a councillor. I would - and i would do so for no pay.

  • 247 in reply to 209
    30/10/2007, 8:44 AM :: Posted by Emma Hagan (Posts 17)

    Question closing

    Thank you to everyone for your comments so far, they've provoked some very interesting debate.

    Please note, this question is due to close at the end of the day and a new question will be launched tomorrow, Wednesday 31st October, so please be sure to get your final comments in!

    All the best.

    Emma

    (moderator)

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